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    Refuto! The "Wonder" of Stall

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    Desch
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    Refuto! The "Wonder" of Stall

    Post by Desch on Thu 14 Aug - 12:44

    My name is (x)Desch, also known as Piggeh, a former DM, a Mod of the glorius Heavenly Dragon Gods Clan and a good friend of the infamous Champion LANCE. I know my fair share of things in this match-up reliant metagame known as XY Ubers and have been playing it since it first came out. Unlike many others, I see this game as a gambling game. Since the begining of battles, a lot of factors come into play. A lot of the game itself, at high level, has massive amounts of prediction based play, also known as 50-50's. A high leveled XY Ubers match will be prediction after prediction, until one of the players are at such an (dis)advantage that the game is pretty much over.

    Now, with that said, I have chosen to build a team based around something that most high-leveled players would reject as viable and never use at all, maybe with the exception of trolling the ladder, or having too much fun. The poke is more used with newer players trying to find "the ultimate strategy" or something, but still, I found some sort of appeal to this poke. With only 1 HP, and a total BST of less than 2.5 times the average Uber, Shedinja has his niches that he can easily abuse. The most obvious one being immune to all of Kyogre's (most used, viable and non-gimmicky) attacks. The other one being as a "check" to Xern in a way, only fearing HP Fire, but I will talk more about that later. Without further ado I'm giving you my team: Refuto! which translates into "Stall Untill You Die"

    Team at Glance:


    Team building history
    Spoiler:
      I started out with Shedinja of course, as he's an interesting poke, I'd like to see the full potential of. His biggest weaknesses was Entry Hazards, Ho-oh, Zekrom, Kyurem-W, many Ground Types (with Rock covergae/Toxic) and Support Arceuses, due to the fact that they often carry a WoW or something. I wanted to create a stall team that could support and abuse Shedinja so with that in mind I selected my next teammates. I actually also started with a Phys Defensive Clefable as well to make a somewhat bizzare core. After using him very succesfully in the team "In Luck We Trust" ,that was given to me to rate and use, I really wanted to try him out some more.



    I had a lot of thoughts in my head to support Shedinja, like SwagKeys or Gothitelle to have fun with support Arceuses, but I wanted to make a more stall based team. So I started with Aegislash and Giratina because I obviously still needed a  back-up Xern check, just in case it could have HP Fire and something that could pursuit-trap Gengar. And I also desperatley needed Defog and an ok check to Ho-Oh. I didn't really like the thought that 'Tina had to rely on Rest to stay healthy, but I gave it the benefit of my doubt.


    I wanted another Defog user, because dual Defog support doesn't look too out-of-this-world when using Shedinja, so I looked at the Arceus Formes and landed on Fairyceus.


    I realized that 3 of my pokes was Ghost-Types and 2 of them was Fairy and the fact that they walled completely different things cracked me up a little bit. So with that weird type redundancy, I picked Yveltal, to somehow balance my weaknesses out.


    Well, the team wasn't too bad, but It still had some flaws that I wanted to disappear. Clefable was cool, but he was too much Gengar bait and I gotta admit, Aegislash is not enough to make it ok, so I changed Clef into an Umbreon, because I liked the fact that he beats MMY + being a cleric that also has the excact same, good SpD and HP stat that Sylveon has, and the fact that he's not completely Gengar bait (fuck Reflect Type Gengar, really)


    I looked some more on my team and still saw some unpleasent flaws. I rebuilt my team and made a lot of changes. I started with the triple Ghost core, but replaced Giratina with Salamence who did a much better job. Then I kept Umbreon.

     
    I really wanted to add a Ferro in the team, seeing how a Zekrom could muscle his way through my team and on top of that, Volt Switch on Shedinja, breaking his Sash while also evading the burn. So I removed Yveltal and got the Iron Durain. Now I saw how weak I was at the physical side, so I wanted to add something that could handle some physical attackers and glue my team together some more. I opted for Arceus-Water with a lot of Deffense.


    Finally, I got rid of Aegislash to get Heatran in. Since Shedinja walled GeoXern lacking HP Fire, I didn't like the fact that if he'd have that moce, he'd have the best coverage move against Aegislash, so assuming Geoxern don't use Focus Blast and HP Fire, Heatran and Shedinja would beat him. The team was finally optimized, showing the full potential of a stall based Shedinja team.

    I also made a non-Shedinja stall team, based on the team I just showed you, the importable is below. anyways, onto the team itself:

    Transcendent  God (Shedinja) @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Wonder Guard
    EVs: 252 Atk
    Adamant Nature
    - Toxic
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Baton Pass
    - Phantom Force

    This thing is extremely good... when given the proper support. Well sometimes he doesn't do anything other than dying, but thats because this game is so match-up reliant anyways. But the goal with this thing will be to get a safe switch-in on something, and then proceed to status their switch in. Just don't be desperate about getting him in the battle. Shedinja can use Baton Pass to scout for dangerous moves, like a random Toxic or Rock move that many pokes may have for different reasons, and it can also give me a lot of momentum, yes even stall can get good momentum. I will usually scout against Xern if he has the proper coveragemove he can handle a Shedinja with, knowing that he can always take a hit. I can usually know for a fact what set the Xern is running simply by going for the Baton Pass on him. Other times I use Baton Pass is to see which pokes that can actually hurt Shedinja, but statusing them is usually better, to slowly wear them down. The Focus Sash is also pretty nice because Shedinja can take a hit, and then pull off a clutch status inflicting move to cripple a big threat in a pinch, before eventually going down himslelf.

    The last move is not really that improtant. Shedinja "needs" a way to actually attack, and would like to have a move that offers many PP, and would help him beat Baton Pass (lol), but I just went with Phantom Force, because it's a 2-turn move that can "waste" a total of 32 turns if neccecary. Also the EV spread is pure laziness. I feel that he don't want max speed, because it doesn't fit Phantom Force 'n stuff. I could if I want give him a negative Def nature to give Genesect a Attack boost, but I don't really care


    RED (Heatran) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Roar
    - Lava Plume
    - Toxic
    - Stealth Rock

    At first I didn't think that I'd use SR on a team with Shedinja, 'cuz I thought it would be kinda counterproductive with the Defog Support I need. But Heatran had plenty of room for it, and it has worked great so far. Shedinja and Heatran makes a good core that will check GeoXern as long as it doesn't run HP Fire and Focus Blast, which is the least common combination of coverage move (in my experience), it's often the one or the other, but the suprize factor in this game is actually one of the biggest factors in the game, so it's not fool proof, just almost. But "the more weird things that is good agains a team, the better"

    It's a really standard set, without Taunt, but still does a very good job at pressuring many of the supportive Arceus Formes and Fairy-Types. He is immune to both of the damaging status moves, which really helps Shedinja out a lot. He is also the only poke on my team that can deal with Klefki and oposing Ferrothorns in an effective way.


    Imma Fly (Salamence) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 248 HP / 220 Def / 40 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Dragon Tail
    - Roost
    - Defog / Refresh
    - Refresh / Toxic

    I wanted a check to Ho-Oh, and I wanted a pretty damn good one as well, and this thing was just what I was looking for. After scrolling through this new thread called "Ubers teambuilding compendium" or something like that, I saw this thing on Ho-Oh Check/Swicth-in, and it really caught my eye.

    Salamence can succesfully wall even CB Ho-oh without troubble and the LO or Toxic Ho-Oh is no different with my own set. I speedcreept up to around 100 Speed Ho-Oh, as I didn't want to waste more bulk in speed. Dragont Tail phazes, and Roost for recovery, Defog because why not and Refresh to keep statuses at bay and to lift off some pressure from my cleric. Intimidate is also really, really good in itself, because it let's me scout and help other teammates in defeating certain pokes like Blaziken, MMX, Arceus. Sadly, he can't pressure SR setters if less I remove Refresh or Defog, both which would put me at a disadvantage. This guy unfortunatley is a Fairy-Type magnet, but honestly, A Giratina would be no different and I still have 3 pokes that can deal with Fairies.


    moonbase(d) (Umbreon) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Foul Play
    - Heal Bell

    Umbreon is my 3rd unorthodox poke on my team. And I really gotta say that he's really underrated and should be used more. While he isn't immune to Dragon, like Sylveon, he's not complete Gengar bait and has one heck of a good ability in Synchronize. Umbreon deals with most SpA attackers, including MMY, which otherwise bothers this team and many stall builds in general. Once again I'd like to fit Toxic right here, but what can you do? Another seemingly weird thing I opted for on the set was 0 Speed EV's, but that allows me to "outslow" many other clerics (who usually carry Toxic) and be able to pull of my Heal Bell after they potentially have statused me, which is really good. The thing I don't like too much about him is that while "absorbing" statuses is nice, he struggles to Heal himself with Wish and be an effective cleric, but he's not bad at all. Seriously, Why has no one even mentioned this thing in the Ubers forums?


    10Detta (Arceus-Water) @ Splash Plate
    Ability: Multitype
    EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Defog / Refresh
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Recover
    - Judgment

    My 2nd Defogger and physically defensive poke. With help from Salamence, he can beat a lot of physical attackers with his sheer bulk, with some additional help from status and a good STAB. I'm considering to give him Pixie Plate to deal better with Yveltal and Dragons, but the water forme is doing just fine and will do a more average job against the Ubers tier in general. It's a super standard set where I need 'Wisp to check some physical attackers, but I also really wish that I had room for Refresh. Oh well, at least he's still an ok switch in to Yveltal and has a good enough deffense overall, even in SpD. Not much more to say abot this 'mon, really.


    Rocky (Ferrothorn) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Gyro Ball

    I really wanted to fit Ferro in this team, the only reason being to handle Zekrom better (Terravolt hits through Wonder Guard!) and he’s also like a back-up check to Ogre. (You might think that it is stupid running Shedinja with a backup check to Ogre, but relying on Ferro to check Kyogre on stall, is just a bad idea and won't work...) Ferro also finishes my unintentional FWG core wich is quite effective and something you do not see too often in Ubers. Ferro does, like Heatran, beat many of the common Supportceuses and with Heatran, they pressure all of the standard formes.

    And I finally have something that had room for every move I wanted him to have. Leech Seed is just extremely good, and Ferro's typing and ablity means that I don't have to rely on the standard "Fairy-Ground core" that Zekrom often forces to deal with him. As having a Fairy-Type other than GeoXern is, more often than not, total Gengar bait. When using this thing, try to not let it recieve status. Ferro really needs to be able to use his moves succesfully to work and also hates burns which limits his ability to continuosly check stuff. Ferro is really good with dealing with that pesky SpD Palkia set and other teams that don’t have much to hit him with. If you’re ”lucky” you can more than once in a battle pull of a free Leech Seed to mess around with your oponent. Just watch out foor random Fire Moves.


    And there you have it, a team that is fun to use, and especially against good players, who thinks it is a joke team until they realize the situasion they're in. The team might seem like it struggles with sand teams, but I've never had an exceptionally hard time against them. My team has, like every other team, it's weaknesses, but as far as I know, this team should be able to play around it. The team fares fairly good against a lot of the threats in the meta. The more I think about it, the more I think that this is more like a showcase than a RMT, but I'm still open for suggestions.

    Importables:

    With Shedinja
    Spoiler:
    Shedinja @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Wonder Guard
    EVs: 252 Atk
    Adamant Nature
    - Toxic
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Baton Pass
    - Phantom Force

    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Roar
    - Lava Plume
    - Toxic
    - Stealth Rock

    Salamence @ Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 248 HP / 220 Def / 40 Spe
    Impish Nature
    - Dragon Tail
    - Roost
    - Defog
    - Refresh

    Umbreon @ Leftovers
    Ability: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Foul Play
    - Heal Bell

    Arceus-Water @ Splash Plate
    Ability: Multitype
    EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Defog
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Recover
    - Judgment

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Gyro Ball

    Without Shedinja:
    Spoiler:

    Palkia @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Spacial Rend
    - Hydro Pump
    - Toxic
    - Rest

    Aegislash @ Leftovers
    Ability: Stance Change
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 236 HP / 20 Atk / 252 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - King's Shield
    - Toxic
    - Gyro Ball
    - Shadow Sneak

    Rhyperior @ Leftovers
    Ability: Solid Rock
    EVs: 244 HP / 12 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rock Blast
    - Earthquake
    - Rest

    Yveltal @ Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Dark Aura
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA / 12 Spe
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Foul Play
    - Oblivion Wing
    - Roost
    - Taunt

    Xerneas @ Leftovers
    Ability: Fairy Aura
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
    Gentle Nature
    - Sleep Talk
    - Aromatherapy
    - Moonblast
    - Rest

    Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
    Ability: Multitype
    EVs: 248 HP / 156 Def / 104 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Judgment
    - Recover
    - Defog
    - Will-O-Wisp


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    Immanent God LANCE
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    Re: Refuto! The "Wonder" of Stall

    Post by Immanent God LANCE on Thu 14 Aug - 12:51

    This looks like a very awesome and unique stall team. Congratulations on making it, and I'll definitely be trying it out myself Smile


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    Imma Fly
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    Re: Refuto! The "Wonder" of Stall

    Post by Imma Fly on Thu 14 Aug - 19:21

    It was a fun team, played a few rounds with it on the ladder (although not really using it optimally) and it was fun hearing people lamenting to having "lost against the worst shit ever" (though they probably don't know that this team is better than what they think it is). I initially used this team trying to ambush dear Shrang but sadly he didn't appear to get chopped.

    Ok, on to a more serious note, this is definitely one of the most unique Ubers teams seen, utilizing "low-rated" pokes such as Shedinja, Salamence, Umbreon (and Heatran to a lesser extent) to cause some serious mayhem to the opponent. I personally find this team to be quite enjoyable to use, being something radical compared to the usual Ho-Oh/Xerneas/Mega-Gengar/Kyogre spam seen everywhere. Also, placing Toxic over Spikes on Ferrothorn was a rather good idea, considering how Ditto could abuse the chance to throw spikes and force out either one of the Defog users.

    Just a couple of potential issues though, other than that the team is splendid.

    1. Mega-Gengar: Yes, painfully obvious, but someone still has to bring it up. Capable of taking out at least one member of the team, usually one of the Defog users,, with the Perish Song set being capable of taking out both of them if used properly. Even if only one Defog user is being taken out,  the game becomes that much harder to win already with hazard pressure shooting up a notch or two. Having said so, winning is not impossible though.

    Here is a replay of one of my test rounds featuring how perish song Mega Gengar can simply yank away Arceus (and probably Salamence as well) for kicks. Fortunately, I was able to scrape the win as my opponent wasn't very skilled.

    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uberssuspecttest-152246739

    2. Choice Band Ho-Oh: The damage caused by this thing is a real pain. Heatran is 3HKOed by Choice Band Ho-oh, meaning that it cannot afford to keep switching in on Brave Bird to throw Stealth Rock (besides, you risk switching in on an Earthquake while you are at it).

    Although it is true that Arceus-Water & Salamence can probably absorb its blows on paper, the loss of momentum caused may merit some consideration.

    With Brave Bird being a guaranteed 2HKOed on both defoggers, they are being forced to recover immediately to avoid being KOed from a second Brave Bird, this basically creates an opening for the opponent to freely switch out into something else that can threaten to take out the defogger, forcing the defogger to flee immediately. Now, the worry lies in the scenario that supposedly the opponent has managed to force up hazards, especially rocks on your side of the field. You are basically forced to switch out and suffer a net loss of health sustained from the entry hazards on your defogger. This basically forces one into a tight spot, as one is now on the defensive and has to try and create an opportunity just to regain back the momentum to pull off a successful defog. In the process, the defoggers, especially Salamence in particular, risk being weakened to the point where their health is low enough to be picked off if the cycle of stepping onto entry hazards to tank Ho-Oh is repeated multiple times in succession. Otherwise, momentum has to be regained by sacrificing one of the team members (usually to Ho-Oh so the defogger can appear and pull off a successful defog).

    Another potential issue is a double switch to Mega Gengar which traps and picks off the defogger, leaving the team more vulnerable being nuked.

    Of course, it does not signify the end of the team just because that the team has a couple of potential weaknesses. If played properly, a win can still be obtained. It won't be that easy though.

    On a slight note, Mega Gengar is probably going to cease being an issue, given how the smogon community is dead-set on banning Gengarite (and probably shadow tag as well).


    Having said all these, all in all, it is still a great and unique team. Congratulations.
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    Re: Refuto! The "Wonder" of Stall

    Post by Lord Itachi on Thu 14 Aug - 22:37

    Nice unique team and a well written RMT.
    Congratzz


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